A History Of Public Permanent Common School Funds In The United States 1795 1905 Classic Reprint

Download A History Of Public Permanent Common School Funds In The United States 1795 1905 Classic Reprint full books in PDF, epub, and Kindle. Read online A History Of Public Permanent Common School Funds In The United States 1795 1905 Classic Reprint ebook anywhere anytime directly on your device. Fast Download speed and no annoying ads. We cannot guarantee that every ebooks is available!

A History of Public Permanent Common School Funds in the United States, 1795-1905 (Classic Reprint)

Author : Fletcher Harper Swift
Publisher :
ISBN 13 : 9781331670100
Total Pages : 514 pages
Book Rating : 4.6/5 (71 download)

DOWNLOAD NOW!

Book Synopsis A History of Public Permanent Common School Funds in the United States, 1795-1905 (Classic Reprint) by : Fletcher Harper Swift

Download or read book A History of Public Permanent Common School Funds in the United States, 1795-1905 (Classic Reprint) written by Fletcher Harper Swift and published by . This book was released on 2015-07-11 with total page 514 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: Excerpt from A History of Public Permanent Common School Funds in the United States, 1795-1905 The existence to-day of public schools in most of our states may be said to be due directly, though of course by no means solely, to vast endowment funds provided by previous generations. In view of the part these funds have played in nearly every state, it is surprising that they have received so little attention from historians. The two most widely known histories of education in the United States, Boone's and Dexter's, give almost no information regarding them. Boone limits his discussion to about seven pages and Dexter, his to two pages. State histories of education are equally disappointing to one seeking information upon this topic. Wickersham's History of Education in Pennsylvania, one of the largest and most comprehensive of state histories of education, contains no organized statement regarding the common school fund of Pennsylvania established in 1831. References to the fund are made here and there, but more space is given to describing the domestic surroundings of various prominent schoolmen than is given to this fund. It is not included in the index, a fact which further emphasizes the small place it occupies in the work. No doubt one of the causes for the silence of the historians is the difficulty of securing reliable information respecting the public permanent common school funds. This difficulty is discussed somewhat fully in Chapter One. The present volume is the first attempt to give a comprehensive account of these funds and their influence. Part One, designed for the general reader, is devoted to a broad survey of the origin, management, loss, and effects of the public permanent common school funds. Part Two is designed primarily for reference. About the Publisher Forgotten Books publishes hundreds of thousands of rare and classic books. Find more at www.forgottenbooks.com This book is a reproduction of an important historical work. Forgotten Books uses state-of-the-art technology to digitally reconstruct the work, preserving the original format whilst repairing imperfections present in the aged copy. In rare cases, an imperfection in the original, such as a blemish or missing page, may be replicated in our edition. We do, however, repair the vast majority of imperfections successfully; any imperfections that remain are intentionally left to preserve the state of such historical works.

A History of Public Permanent Common School Funds in the United States, 1795-1905

Author : Fletcher Harper Swift
Publisher :
ISBN 13 : 9781462267477
Total Pages : 499 pages
Book Rating : 4.2/5 (674 download)

DOWNLOAD NOW!

Book Synopsis A History of Public Permanent Common School Funds in the United States, 1795-1905 by : Fletcher Harper Swift

Download or read book A History of Public Permanent Common School Funds in the United States, 1795-1905 written by Fletcher Harper Swift and published by . This book was released on 2013-03-20 with total page 499 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: Hardcover reprint of the original 1911 edition - beautifully bound in brown cloth covers featuring titles stamped in gold, 8vo - 6x9". No adjustments have been made to the original text, giving readers the full antiquarian experience. For quality purposes, all text and images are printed as black and white. This item is printed on demand. Book Information: Swift, Fletcher Harper. A History Of Public Permanent Common School Funds In The United States, 1795-1905. Indiana: Repressed Publishing LLC, 2012. Original Publishing: Swift, Fletcher Harper. A History Of Public Permanent Common School Funds In The United States, 1795-1905, . New York, H. Holt And Company, 1911. Subject: Education

A History of Public Permanent Common School Funds in the United States, 1795-1905 (1911)

Author : Flectcher Harper Swift
Publisher :
ISBN 13 : 9781436733328
Total Pages : 508 pages
Book Rating : 4.7/5 (333 download)

DOWNLOAD NOW!

Book Synopsis A History of Public Permanent Common School Funds in the United States, 1795-1905 (1911) by : Flectcher Harper Swift

Download or read book A History of Public Permanent Common School Funds in the United States, 1795-1905 (1911) written by Flectcher Harper Swift and published by . This book was released on 2008-06-01 with total page 508 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: This scarce antiquarian book is a facsimile reprint of the original. Due to its age, it may contain imperfections such as marks, notations, marginalia and flawed pages. Because we believe this work is culturally important, we have made it available as part of our commitment for protecting, preserving, and promoting the world's literature in affordable, high quality, modern editions that are true to the original work.

HISTORY OF PUBLIC PERMANENT COMMON SCHOOL FUNDS IN THE UNITED STATES, 1795-1905

Author : FLETCHER HARPER. SWIFT
Publisher :
ISBN 13 : 9781033574867
Total Pages : 0 pages
Book Rating : 4.5/5 (748 download)

DOWNLOAD NOW!

Book Synopsis HISTORY OF PUBLIC PERMANENT COMMON SCHOOL FUNDS IN THE UNITED STATES, 1795-1905 by : FLETCHER HARPER. SWIFT

Download or read book HISTORY OF PUBLIC PERMANENT COMMON SCHOOL FUNDS IN THE UNITED STATES, 1795-1905 written by FLETCHER HARPER. SWIFT and published by . This book was released on 2018 with total page 0 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt:

A History of Public Permanent Common School Funds in the United States, 1795-1905 - Primary Source Edition

Author : Fletcher Harper Swift
Publisher : Nabu Press
ISBN 13 : 9781289733025
Total Pages : 516 pages
Book Rating : 4.7/5 (33 download)

DOWNLOAD NOW!

Book Synopsis A History of Public Permanent Common School Funds in the United States, 1795-1905 - Primary Source Edition by : Fletcher Harper Swift

Download or read book A History of Public Permanent Common School Funds in the United States, 1795-1905 - Primary Source Edition written by Fletcher Harper Swift and published by Nabu Press. This book was released on 2013-09 with total page 516 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: This is a reproduction of a book published before 1923. This book may have occasional imperfections such as missing or blurred pages, poor pictures, errant marks, etc. that were either part of the original artifact, or were introduced by the scanning process. We believe this work is culturally important, and despite the imperfections, have elected to bring it back into print as part of our continuing commitment to the preservation of printed works worldwide. We appreciate your understanding of the imperfections in the preservation process, and hope you enjoy this valuable book.

A History of Public Permanent Common School Funds in the United States, 1795-1903

Author : Fletcher Harper Swift
Publisher :
ISBN 13 :
Total Pages : 493 pages
Book Rating : 4.:/5 (25 download)

DOWNLOAD NOW!

Book Synopsis A History of Public Permanent Common School Funds in the United States, 1795-1903 by : Fletcher Harper Swift

Download or read book A History of Public Permanent Common School Funds in the United States, 1795-1903 written by Fletcher Harper Swift and published by . This book was released on 1911 with total page 493 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt:

Special Report Concerning Common School Funds (Classic Reprint)

Author : Indiana State Board of Accounts
Publisher : Forgotten Books
ISBN 13 : 9781333301521
Total Pages : 94 pages
Book Rating : 4.3/5 (15 download)

DOWNLOAD NOW!

Book Synopsis Special Report Concerning Common School Funds (Classic Reprint) by : Indiana State Board of Accounts

Download or read book Special Report Concerning Common School Funds (Classic Reprint) written by Indiana State Board of Accounts and published by Forgotten Books. This book was released on 2016-08-21 with total page 94 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: Excerpt from Special Report Concerning Common School Funds Brie y, I desire to direct your attention to the statute governing the school funds of the State and the duty you owe to your county in the safe and businesslike management of this fund. The statute provides that every board of commissioners shall ap point men for appraisers who have had experience in real estate matters and know the value of real estate in their respective districts. The sum loaned shall not exceed one-half of the appraised value of the premises to be mortgaged. Perishable improvements may be accepted as a part of the security. If perishable improvements are accepted, the borrower is required to procure tornado and fire insurance, from a company duly authorized to transact business in this State, in a sum equal to sixty-six and two-thirds per cent. Of the appraised value of su'ch improvements (sections 6232-6248 Burns, The total amount of school funds charged to the several counties of the State and under the direct control of county auditors is nearly all of which is kept loaned at all times. Would a private corporation handle this enormous sum carelessly? Certainly not. About the Publisher Forgotten Books publishes hundreds of thousands of rare and classic books. Find more at www.forgottenbooks.com This book is a reproduction of an important historical work. Forgotten Books uses state-of-the-art technology to digitally reconstruct the work, preserving the original format whilst repairing imperfections present in the aged copy. In rare cases, an imperfection in the original, such as a blemish or missing page, may be replicated in our edition. We do, however, repair the vast majority of imperfections successfully; any imperfections that remain are intentionally left to preserve the state of such historical works."

Record of Appraisement of School Fund Property, 1905 (Classic Reprint)

Author : Chicago Board of Education
Publisher : Forgotten Books
ISBN 13 : 9780666049704
Total Pages : 364 pages
Book Rating : 4.0/5 (497 download)

DOWNLOAD NOW!

Book Synopsis Record of Appraisement of School Fund Property, 1905 (Classic Reprint) by : Chicago Board of Education

Download or read book Record of Appraisement of School Fund Property, 1905 (Classic Reprint) written by Chicago Board of Education and published by Forgotten Books. This book was released on 2018-02-21 with total page 364 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: Excerpt from Record of Appraisement of School Fund Property, 1905 These figures, when compared with those received by the Board from this property in the year 1880, when the supplemental leases were entered into, indicate the growing worth and value of Chicago real estate. There is a still more marked difference between these figures and the figures of 1855, the time when the revaluation leases were entered into by the Board of Education. We have prepared, for this record of appraisement of the School Fund Property of the Board of Education, two (2) tabulated statements; one of these tables con sists of School Fund Property, in Block 142, and one con cerns School Fund Property in other parts of the city. All of the property tabulated under the ninety-nine (99) year or straight leases formerly was leased under revaluation clause leases, and we have taken some pains to show by these tables the annual rent paid by the lessees prior to the time that the leases were changed to straight ninety-nine (99) year leases. A comparison of these tables will be very instructive to all persons interested in this matter. About the Publisher Forgotten Books publishes hundreds of thousands of rare and classic books. Find more at www.forgottenbooks.com This book is a reproduction of an important historical work. Forgotten Books uses state-of-the-art technology to digitally reconstruct the work, preserving the original format whilst repairing imperfections present in the aged copy. In rare cases, an imperfection in the original, such as a blemish or missing page, may be replicated in our edition. We do, however, repair the vast majority of imperfections successfully; any imperfections that remain are intentionally left to preserve the state of such historical works.

PUBLIC SCHOOL HIST OF COMMON S

Author : New York (State) Dept of Public Instru
Publisher : Wentworth Press
ISBN 13 : 9781363603275
Total Pages : 160 pages
Book Rating : 4.6/5 (32 download)

DOWNLOAD NOW!

Book Synopsis PUBLIC SCHOOL HIST OF COMMON S by : New York (State) Dept of Public Instru

Download or read book PUBLIC SCHOOL HIST OF COMMON S written by New York (State) Dept of Public Instru and published by Wentworth Press. This book was released on 2016-08-26 with total page 160 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: This work has been selected by scholars as being culturally important, and is part of the knowledge base of civilization as we know it. This work was reproduced from the original artifact, and remains as true to the original work as possible. Therefore, you will see the original copyright references, library stamps (as most of these works have been housed in our most important libraries around the world), and other notations in the work. This work is in the public domain in the United States of America, and possibly other nations. Within the United States, you may freely copy and distribute this work, as no entity (individual or corporate) has a copyright on the body of the work. As a reproduction of a historical artifact, this work may contain missing or blurred pages, poor pictures, errant marks, etc. Scholars believe, and we concur, that this work is important enough to be preserved, reproduced, and made generally available to the public. We appreciate your support of the preservation process, and thank you for being an important part of keeping this knowledge alive and relevant.

Federal Aid to Public Schools (Classic Reprint)

Author : Fletcher Harper Swift
Publisher : Forgotten Books
ISBN 13 : 9780366458516
Total Pages : 62 pages
Book Rating : 4.4/5 (585 download)

DOWNLOAD NOW!

Book Synopsis Federal Aid to Public Schools (Classic Reprint) by : Fletcher Harper Swift

Download or read book Federal Aid to Public Schools (Classic Reprint) written by Fletcher Harper Swift and published by Forgotten Books. This book was released on 2018-05-03 with total page 62 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: Excerpt from Federal Aid to Public Schools It was in 1821 that the dissatisfaction of the original States with this policy came to a climax. Under the leadership of Maryland, the demand for school land grants for the original States became a burning issue. Connecticut, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Vir ginia lent their support to Maryland's efforts, but in vain. Their cause speedily became a lost cause.2 The next notable event occurred in 1841, when Congress passed an act providing for the distribution among the States and Territories of the net proceeds of the sales of public lands after the payment to the States of certain sums (per centum grants) to which the States were severally entitled. This act, however, remained in force less than one year, and the question of a general policy of Federal aid to public schools was allowed to slumber.3 The smith-towner bill, introduced into the United States Senate on August 10, 1918, renewed the issue. This bill, as is well known, failed of passage but was followed by the Towner Sterling bill. Whether the policies embodied in these two bills will ever be incorporated into Federal law or not, it is obvious that there is need of a concise account of just what aid the Federal Government has thus far provided for public schools. The present monograph has been prepared with a view to presenting such statement. About the Publisher Forgotten Books publishes hundreds of thousands of rare and classic books. Find more at www.forgottenbooks.com This book is a reproduction of an important historical work. Forgotten Books uses state-of-the-art technology to digitally reconstruct the work, preserving the original format whilst repairing imperfections present in the aged copy. In rare cases, an imperfection in the original, such as a blemish or missing page, may be replicated in our edition. We do, however, repair the vast majority of imperfections successfully; any imperfections that remain are intentionally left to preserve the state of such historical works.

Peabody Education Fund

Author : Peabody Education Fund
Publisher : Forgotten Books
ISBN 13 : 9781396751318
Total Pages : 32 pages
Book Rating : 4.7/5 (513 download)

DOWNLOAD NOW!

Book Synopsis Peabody Education Fund by : Peabody Education Fund

Download or read book Peabody Education Fund written by Peabody Education Fund and published by Forgotten Books. This book was released on 2018-10-12 with total page 32 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: Excerpt from Peabody Education Fund: Proceedings of the Trustees at Their Forty-Seventh Meeting, New York, 4 October, 1905 The records of the last meeting were read and accepted; after which a prayer was offered by Bishop doane. The Chairman congratulated the Board on the full attendance of the members at this meeting, which was one of unusual importance. About the Publisher Forgotten Books publishes hundreds of thousands of rare and classic books. Find more at www.forgottenbooks.com This book is a reproduction of an important historical work. Forgotten Books uses state-of-the-art technology to digitally reconstruct the work, preserving the original format whilst repairing imperfections present in the aged copy. In rare cases, an imperfection in the original, such as a blemish or missing page, may be replicated in our edition. We do, however, repair the vast majority of imperfections successfully; any imperfections that remain are intentionally left to preserve the state of such historical works.

2 LECTURES

Author : Charles 1795-1872 Brooks
Publisher : Wentworth Press
ISBN 13 : 9781373302304
Total Pages : 42 pages
Book Rating : 4.3/5 (23 download)

DOWNLOAD NOW!

Book Synopsis 2 LECTURES by : Charles 1795-1872 Brooks

Download or read book 2 LECTURES written by Charles 1795-1872 Brooks and published by Wentworth Press. This book was released on 2016-08-29 with total page 42 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: This work has been selected by scholars as being culturally important, and is part of the knowledge base of civilization as we know it. This work was reproduced from the original artifact, and remains as true to the original work as possible. Therefore, you will see the original copyright references, library stamps (as most of these works have been housed in our most important libraries around the world), and other notations in the work. This work is in the public domain in the United States of America, and possibly other nations. Within the United States, you may freely copy and distribute this work, as no entity (individual or corporate) has a copyright on the body of the work. As a reproduction of a historical artifact, this work may contain missing or blurred pages, poor pictures, errant marks, etc. Scholars believe, and we concur, that this work is important enough to be preserved, reproduced, and made generally available to the public. We appreciate your support of the preservation process, and thank you for being an important part of keeping this knowledge alive and relevant.

Special Report Upon the School Fund and Upon Taxation and Revenue

Author : New York State Comptroller's Office
Publisher :
ISBN 13 : 9781332876518
Total Pages : 26 pages
Book Rating : 4.8/5 (765 download)

DOWNLOAD NOW!

Book Synopsis Special Report Upon the School Fund and Upon Taxation and Revenue by : New York State Comptroller's Office

Download or read book Special Report Upon the School Fund and Upon Taxation and Revenue written by New York State Comptroller's Office and published by . This book was released on 2016-06-23 with total page 26 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: Excerpt from Special Report Upon the School Fund and Upon Taxation and Revenue: Transmitted to the Legislature February 25th, 1885 The act of 1812 provided that the interest of the school fund should be divided among the different counties and towns, accord ing to population, and that each town should raise by tax, annually, a sum Of money equal to its receipts from the fund. The act of 1814 recast that of 1812, transferred the tax-levying power from the towns to the counties, and made the levy Obligatory. The gross amount of moneys received from the State and thus raised by the towns was to be appropriated to the payment of teachers' wages. In the following year there was made the first distribution of the income Of the fund. Such distribution, together with local taxation, pursuant to the act of 1814, continued annually until 1851. But during this period the schools drew largely from other sources, prominent among these being the rate-bill, which was the district charge upon each parent or guardian, based upon actual attendance of children, and imposed for the purpose of paying whatever balance was due teachers, after the proceeds of the fund and the equivalent local tax were exhausted. About the Publisher Forgotten Books publishes hundreds of thousands of rare and classic books. Find more at www.forgottenbooks.com This book is a reproduction of an important historical work. Forgotten Books uses state-of-the-art technology to digitally reconstruct the work, preserving the original format whilst repairing imperfections present in the aged copy. In rare cases, an imperfection in the original, such as a blemish or missing page, may be replicated in our edition. We do, however, repair the vast majority of imperfections successfully; any imperfections that remain are intentionally left to preserve the state of such historical works.

Common Schools in the United States Compared With Those in Europe (Classic Reprint)

Author : M. J. Spalding
Publisher : Forgotten Books
ISBN 13 : 9780656128792
Total Pages : 36 pages
Book Rating : 4.1/5 (287 download)

DOWNLOAD NOW!

Book Synopsis Common Schools in the United States Compared With Those in Europe (Classic Reprint) by : M. J. Spalding

Download or read book Common Schools in the United States Compared With Those in Europe (Classic Reprint) written by M. J. Spalding and published by Forgotten Books. This book was released on 2018-02-08 with total page 36 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: Excerpt from Common Schools in the United States Compared With Those in Europe These undoubted facts must be blotted out from the history of the past, before the enemies of the Catholic Church can make good their accusation, that she is opposed to the educa tion, of the people. The allegation that Catholics in this country are not favorable to the system of Common Schools, as here adopted, does not at all sustain the charge; for our opposition to the system does not grow out of any disposition to check or stiﬂe the education of the many, which we' are inclined, on the contrary, to promote by every means in our power, but it is founded on other reasons altogether different. It is because we conscientiously believe that our present Com mon School system is grievously defective and faulty; and that, whether intentionally or not, it infringes our religious liberties, guarantied to us by the Constitution, for the securing of which, the blood of our fathers ﬂowed as freely as did that of those who would fain force upon us their own crude and illiberal ideas of education. Minorities have rights as well as majorities; and when minorities have reason and truth on their side, they have even stronger and more valid rights. About the Publisher Forgotten Books publishes hundreds of thousands of rare and classic books. Find more at www.forgottenbooks.com This book is a reproduction of an important historical work. Forgotten Books uses state-of-the-art technology to digitally reconstruct the work, preserving the original format whilst repairing imperfections present in the aged copy. In rare cases, an imperfection in the original, such as a blemish or missing page, may be replicated in our edition. We do, however, repair the vast majority of imperfections successfully; any imperfections that remain are intentionally left to preserve the state of such historical works.

Report Upon, and Draught of a Code for the Support of Common Schools (Classic Reprint)

Author : J. C. Le Grand
Publisher : Forgotten Books
ISBN 13 : 9780332960142
Total Pages : 50 pages
Book Rating : 4.9/5 (61 download)

DOWNLOAD NOW!

Book Synopsis Report Upon, and Draught of a Code for the Support of Common Schools (Classic Reprint) by : J. C. Le Grand

Download or read book Report Upon, and Draught of a Code for the Support of Common Schools (Classic Reprint) written by J. C. Le Grand and published by Forgotten Books. This book was released on 2017-12-16 with total page 50 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: Excerpt from Report Upon, and Draught of a Code for the Support of Common Schools In regard to the distribution of the school fund, the system prevailing in nearly all the eastern states, has been adopted. With scarce an exception in those states, it is provided, that when a county, or town, fails to raise by taxation a specified sum for the support of common schools, that such county, or town, is deprived of all part of the fund furnished by the state. This feature has been found to be of the utmost importance, and to act powerfully in behalf of the cause of education. The inhabitants of counties, or towns, who from a culpable neglect of the best interests of society, are unwilling to subject them, selves to taxation for the education of the poor, are thus te minded, that unless they will bear a portion of the burden, they will not be allowed to enjoy any portion of the fund which the patriotic munificence of the state has created for this pur pose. About the Publisher Forgotten Books publishes hundreds of thousands of rare and classic books. Find more at www.forgottenbooks.com This book is a reproduction of an important historical work. Forgotten Books uses state-of-the-art technology to digitally reconstruct the work, preserving the original format whilst repairing imperfections present in the aged copy. In rare cases, an imperfection in the original, such as a blemish or missing page, may be replicated in our edition. We do, however, repair the vast majority of imperfections successfully; any imperfections that remain are intentionally left to preserve the state of such historical works.

National Aid in the Establishment and Temporary Support of Common Schools

Author : Henry W. Blair
Publisher :
ISBN 13 : 9780656447084
Total Pages : 58 pages
Book Rating : 4.4/5 (47 download)

DOWNLOAD NOW!

Book Synopsis National Aid in the Establishment and Temporary Support of Common Schools by : Henry W. Blair

Download or read book National Aid in the Establishment and Temporary Support of Common Schools written by Henry W. Blair and published by . This book was released on 2018-02-13 with total page 58 pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt:

An Address Upon Education and Common Schools

Author : James Henry, MD
Publisher : Palala Press
ISBN 13 : 9781357926267
Total Pages : pages
Book Rating : 4.9/5 (262 download)

DOWNLOAD NOW!

Book Synopsis An Address Upon Education and Common Schools by : James Henry, MD

Download or read book An Address Upon Education and Common Schools written by James Henry, MD and published by Palala Press. This book was released on 2016-05-20 with total page pages. Available in PDF, EPUB and Kindle. Book excerpt: This work has been selected by scholars as being culturally important, and is part of the knowledge base of civilization as we know it. This work was reproduced from the original artifact, and remains as true to the original work as possible. Therefore, you will see the original copyright references, library stamps (as most of these works have been housed in our most important libraries around the world), and other notations in the work. This work is in the public domain in the United States of America, and possibly other nations. Within the United States, you may freely copy and distribute this work, as no entity (individual or corporate) has a copyright on the body of the work. As a reproduction of a historical artifact, this work may contain missing or blurred pages, poor pictures, errant marks, etc. Scholars believe, and we concur, that this work is important enough to be preserved, reproduced, and made generally available to the public. We appreciate your support of the preservation process, and thank you for being an important part of keeping this knowledge alive and relevant.